What is wrong with Americans?

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What is wrong with Americans?

Post by marymary »

From the BBC today.

Nancy Pelosi was warned that China wouldn’t take this sort of interference. The woman’s an idiot.
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Re: What is wrong with Americans?

Post by SRD »

It is indeed a terrible thing to stick up for democratically elected governments against totalitarian states.
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Re: What is wrong with Americans?

Post by Little John »

The country that kicked the hornets nest.

But I was wondering this morning, if they planned the latest action anyway and just used the visit as an excuse. Otherwise their reaction doesn't make a lot of sense. All that just for one more visit.
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Re: What is wrong with Americans?

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There’s ways of showing support that don’t provoke the dragon.More has been lost than gained.
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Re: What is wrong with Americans?

Post by digger »

I'm with Simon on part here , firstly I don't think the opposition to the visit by the US government is as robust as made out . Add to that the Chinese want to make the whole sea area a no go for non Chinese . They're also claiming a Japanese island further down . Most importantly they are not democratic and don't give a toss what others think , if others were to turn the other cheek it would be guaranteed to be slapped too .
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Re: What is wrong with Americans?

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I get that, honestly but missiles have been used today which must be quite frightening for those left behind her flying visit.

Of course, I would not put it past the US government to be using her for plausible deniability.
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Re: What is wrong with Americans?

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It seems a frightening prospect that the Chinese have managed to put on this massive show of force in just a few days if it is a reaction to Pelosi's visit. Gathering all those ships, ensuring land missile stations are ready, etc., or is it that it has been well prepared beforehand and has just used the visit as an excuse to see just how much rope the Democracies are prepared to give China before reacting? The US seems to have been particularly quiet on the subject, almost as if they already knew what was going on.
Of course the action is frightening, although reports from Taiwan suggest they consider it to be, on the whole, very much business as usual.
The bottom line has to be that, if we don't want to live under a totalitarian regime we have to stand up and be prepared to fight for it. Appeasement has never worked.
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Re: What is wrong with Americans?

Post by Leigh »

Of course we must stand up to China, look at what happened to Europe after WW1 Hitler promised 'glory' for the 'Fatherland' and tried to expand into neighbouring countries. He might have succeeded, too, had he not been too ambitious. China is a little smarter than that and is (for certain) stirring up the hornets to ensure that they are ready to "defend" their "territory".
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Re: What is wrong with Americans?

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No one is suggesting appeasement. This, however, was unnecessary provocation in one of the world’s most sensitive geopolitical hotspots and risked starting a third world war.
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Re: What is wrong with Americans?

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Allowing China to dictate who can and who cannot visit Taiwan is appeasement.
It was only provocative if China chose to make it so.
The geopolitical sensitivity is purely down to China's demand to take over areas internationally agreed to be free space or to belong to other nations and make them part of its fiefdom. Allowing them to do this is appeasement.
No risk at all of WW3, although aggressive Li Keqiang isn't Vladimir Putin.
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Re: What is wrong with Americans?

Post by marymary »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-62569056


Voters in the US state of Wyoming have ousted congresswoman Liz Cheney, a rare Republican critic of former President Donald Trump, in a primary election.
She has been trounced by a relative political newcomer and Trump-backed candidate, Harriet Hageman.
Ms Cheney, 56, was one of only two members of her party to join the congressional committee investigating Mr Trump's attempts to cling to power.

We can’t blame Trump, per se. We have to acknowledge that Americans actually want corruption and dictatorship, as long as they’re keeping their own head above water.
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Re: What is wrong with Americans?

Post by Scholar »

On Speaker Pelosi's visit to Taiwan--
I think this is probably the best thing she has done in her political career.
China's claims to and ambitions for Taiwan resemble those of Russia's claim to and ambitions for Ukraine. The U.S. assured Ukraine that they did not need to maintain an air force able to equal Russia's air force, that the U.S. would help if needed--but there was no treaty, per se, to do so. Putin calculated that the U.S. (or any other democracies) would not give Ukraine enough military help to stand up against a sizeable Russian attack. President Biden was not willing to commit to strong enough sanctions, far enough in advance of the threat, to deter the attack (he was depending on Russian oil to supply the U.S., since his administration had taken up strong anti-U.S.-oil policies, and he resisted cutting off Russian oil sales to the U.S.). Russia expected a victory against Ukraine, in a shorter time frame, at less of a cost in military hardware and men.

The U.S. has formal agreements to defend Taiwan militarily, if attacked, and has supported Taiwan with military weapons. Officially, it is a stronger relationship than with Ukraine. But, with President Biden having fled Afghanistan in disarray, and having damaged the U.S. economy with high inflation policies, China might well wonder if President Biden would honor the longstanding U.S. commitment to defend Taiwan. If he was afraid to maintain even a small U.S. military presence in a country where much of the enemy consists of men with rifles, on horseback, would he risk American ships and planes and lives against China, for the sake of a relatively small island democracy? (Perhaps President Biden would honor the U.S. commitments--but, might China imagine otherwise and attack our ally?) Speaker Pelosi, part of the U.S. Congress--not our Executive Branch and not in command of our military--showed support and encouragement for Taiwan without threatening the Chinese totalitarian government in any way. If they read it, that they ought not count on an easy, mostly unopposed victory if they invade Taiwan, then Pelosi has done the cause of world peace a favor.
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Re: What is wrong with Americans?

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Up to a point Lord Copper.
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Re: What is wrong with Americans?

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My theory which is mine and belongs to me, is that the whole China show was an agreement with the US that they would not help Russia but needed a way to strut their stuff with their chests puffed out.
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Re: What is wrong with Americans?

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Voters in the US state of Wyoming have ousted congresswoman Liz Cheney, a rare Republican critic of former President Donald Trump, in a primary election.
She has been trounced by a relative political newcomer and Trump-backed candidate, Harriet Hageman.
Ms Cheney, 56, was one of only two members of her party to join the congressional committee investigating Mr Trump's attempts to cling to power.
And, why was she one of only two Republican members on that committee?

The traditional way to constitute a congressional committee is for the Democrat Congressional leadership to select Democrats, and the Republican Congressional leadership to select Republicans. This allows that, where there are disagreements between the parties, each party has an opportunity to have members represent its viewpoint.

In the case of this committee, Speaker Pelosi looked to appoint people who agreed with the story the Democrats were promoting to the public, that there was no question that the election results as reported from every state were honest and legal. She only found a few Republicans who were willing to do so.

It is worth noting that the Democrats completely reversed themselves on this issue. When Al Gore ran against George W. Bush, Bush won the election by a margin that would have been reversed, if Florida had voted for Gore. At that time, the Democrats pushed as hard as they could for the Florida election to be reversed, claiming that the ballot was confusing [it had been designed by a Democrat], that people who thought they were voting for Gore actually voted for some other candidate, etc. The Bush victory was upheld, but many Democrats to this day maintain the election was stolen. (The ballots were recounted by a combination of journalists, who just wanted to know what the truth was, after the rulings had been made. They discovered that Bush had, indeed, won the election. Of course, if the Democrats had realized that Florida was at risk, they could have turned out in greater numbers--but "it coulda been different" is true of every election.)

There are two major flaws in the U.S. system of voting for President:

1- Voting fraud is fairly easy if nothing is done to make sure that a ballot comes from a particular legal voter. If a person shows up to vote in person with picture ID, is on a well-maintained registered voters list, and he can identify himself on the spot (traditionally, this has been with a signature), then the voting is likely to be honest (if the list has been maintained). Some states don't require ID, some have been known to let people vote if their signatures don't match, and some do not keep the voter list up-to-date. It is truly remarkable, what a large percentage of people over 100 years old vote in some Democrat cities, years after they have been buried in cemeteries. Some states allow people to sign up to vote when they apply for a driver's license--even if they are not legal citizens!

The voter fraud problem has gotten worse with the large-scale use of mail-in ballots. Before, a person who could not come to the poll for some reason could request an absentee mail in a ballot, in advance. I believe a witness was required to support the person's claim. With COVID, large numbers of people had ballots mailed to them, based on mailing lists. If the person no longer lived there, anyone who filled it out and sent it back could get a vote (including children, and including people who would show up and vote in their own name). Sometimes, hundreds of ballots would be sent to a single address--e.g. a nursing home--and the person who handles the mail could intercept them and fill them all out. There are a few states with strong voter honesty laws--requiring picture ID, signatures for those who can sign, and some corresponding information (such as Social Security Number or State ID number or Driver's License number).

2-There is not enough time to investigate, when there are reports of voter fraud. When there were reports of fraud in the last election, the ordinary course of American legal process is to investigate, then prosecute if the investigation points to a crime. In the case of voter fraud, a person who complains they have seen fraud must essentially prove it in order for the illegal votes to be kept separate. They don't have detectives to investigate, or the power to issue or execute search warrants, or time to figure out who did the fraud or put legal pressure on some who participated in the fraud to testify against the bosses in order to get lighter sentences for themselves. The system depends on the honesty of those in the voting system. Some areas of the country (e.g. Chicago) have been run by one party for many, many years, and everyone in power is fine with allowing some voter fraud to maintain power for themselves. And, when the election poll judges don't answer questions--even stupid, wrong-headed ones by people who think they saw a cheat which was actually handled properly--it undermines confidence in the system.
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